I've been a Dick once...
...or sixtee... ahem... XVI times.
Mid-day yesterday, I started wondering if I was the only person who was not overcome with joy over this whole Pope thing. I must be in the other billion. After watching the news last night (where they reported most Germans have a negative view of Joseph Ratzinger) I was releived that I wasn't. Heck, his own countrymen seem to have given the whole thing a big fat "Boooo"!
A few things that really bug me:
1.) Lost in all the hoopla over the death of John Paul II and his many successes was probably his biggest downfall (imho): concentrating more church power than ever in the Vatican. Bad Bad Bad. We all know what happens when you do that - less Christ-like not more.
2.) While the church designs the buildings and costumes to be impressive to the common man, I couldn't help but be unimpressed. Knowing what I do about the life of Christ, I cannot in my wildest imagination think that he would have wanted any disciples of his to lead that kind of a lifestlye (riches, gold, and outward appearances).
3.) The pope selection process. I should probably allow for more faith on this, but the way it was reported about politics and pursuasion and voiting... seemed like either congress or a popularity contest. If this guy is infallible, isn't there a better way to pick him? Why 3 votes? Shouldn't one vote do? (Incidentally, this process probably isn't a whole lot different than how all Christians got their various canons).
Well, we'll see how this Pope does, but I'm going to predict an even faster downturn in the Catholic church in this country unless he really takes a left turn (clyde) from his past stances. Not likely! The church is way too conservative (socially) for even our society. The good thing I see, ironically, is that this guy is a strong theologen, which seems to be an important trait for the Pope to have. He also seems to be taking a good cue from John Paul II and continuing to reach out to other faiths.
I hope I don't offend any Catholics, but that's probably not possible with a post like this. So I'll just apologize and ask that you understand that I don't believe in the Pope's authority or infallibility.
posted by chewie at 2:57 PM
8 Comments:
this pope is of the philosphy that a smaller church may be a stronger church. as such, he is going to put out the hardline and if you don't like it you are welcome to leave.
i really don't have a problem with that philosphy. but of course, i was one of those who chose to leave.
other thoughts...
* the catholic church could do a lot of good in this world by reversing their archiac and stupid ban on birth control. they have the resources and enfluence to really make a difference in the africa aids crisis.
* pope infallibility is overstated. he is only infallible in terms of church doctrine. and its a power he only invokes rarely. it doesn't mean he is without sin.
* totally agree on riches of the vatican. jesus surely would not approve.
tb
3:23 PM
I don't have much to add about the pope thing because I haven't really been following it except to know that there is now a new pope. However, I am interested in the fact that one of your issues with the catholic church is the amount of riches and outward appearances it is pursues. Can not these exact same things be said about almost every American Christian (catholic or otherwise)? I always wonder (myself included in this) how all of us can live with ourselves or fool ourselves into believing that we are living a life that Christ would want us to be living. I realize that there is something to be said for taking care of yourself but it seems like most of us use our nationality as an excuse not to think of others less fortunate than us and instead buy into capitalistic greed. I guess, I'm just saying that I don't think this is a "catholic" issue but rather something that is wrong with most churches/Christians.
6:58 PM
Totally agree with you on the not excited about the pope issue chew. And I don't think you should appologize for truth, but I will appologize for this opinion...I wish the Pope would die for good...not bodily but the position of the Pope. Christ was the ONLY "go between guy", and it's silly to think otherwise, especially in the fact that the pope as he changes contradicts and changes...tell me how is change on a position, etc biblical??? There is no person who is infallible and to believe such is simply unbiblical. I totally agree with the riches thing as well...and yes it isn't JUST the catholic church, but lets get real for a minute, the catholic church is very much in majority rule when it comes to air time world wide, though I don't even think...I know...from what scripture has to say that Christ was not the "king" the world expected, why can't we learn from history, we are apparently still expecting a glorious kingdom here on Earth, it's not going to happen people. Hell on Earth that's what the glory of Heaven is all about! I don't think it's a bad thing to have riches or even nice buildings, etc, but are we really building them as sacrifices to God or are they becoming are idols/corrupting the view of who the church is for?
ed
1:13 PM
tell me how is change on a position, etc biblical???
the bible isn't the most improtant document to catholics. the catechism is.
tell me how is change on a position, etc biblical??? There is no person who is infallible and to believe such is simply unbiblical.
again, the church doesn't say the pope is without sin. they merelay say that when he invokes infallibility in a church decision on doctrine, that decision is absolutely correct.
my issue with this is that church doctrine has changed over the years. what does that say about the infallibility of the pope's decisions?
tb
10:50 AM
On this infallability issue and birth control: The church will never change it's position...it can't.
First off it is a basic church assumption that doctrine from the pope is infallable, that is everything the pope declares is in effect the word of God. Call this A. (Thanks tb for the clarification on infallability.)
Secondly, at some point in history (I have no idea when) some pope declared that birth control is evil. Due to the infallabiliy, therefore god said birth control is evil. Call this B.
If the new pope changes the church position, then he in effect declares that the pope is infallable.
Proof:
1) The old pope is infallable and declared birth control wrong, A => B.
2) By the contrapositive property, ~B => ~A.
3) The new pope declares birth control okay, ~B.
4) By (2) we see ~B => ~A.
5) ~A means that the pope's doctrine is not infallable.
QED
The only option left is that god screwed up and gave the wrong message to the previous pope on purpose.
3:53 PM
I think in the 4th paragraph, you meant to say "fallable".
12:26 PM
natc,
the only argument i think the catholics have to your argument is that their birth control policy hasn't been declared to be infalliable. the catholics have rules that are infallible that will never change according to your proof. they also have a set of rules that aren't infalliable such as birth control and death penality.
its complicated. too complicated for me.
tb
12:46 PM
I think if Jesus helps rappers reach new heights, more bling, and the ability to put spinners on everything, there's no reason he can't pitch in to make the pope a new hat.
3:33 PM
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